Curse

yum · Feb 12, 2008, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

Also, if you are in trouble enough that you can't use TU, you or your team screwed up.

you don't troll during a fight

if u see too much pressure just nat out and troll.

Diddy bow · Feb 12, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

The three second cast is just impractical no matter what the healing.

Terraban · Feb 12, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

izzy totally missed the mark on all the updates to self heals. troll unguent should look like this:

5e 2c 10r
for 5 seconds, you gain 4...8 health regeneration. when this skill ends, you are healed for 20...100 health.

the problem with troll is that it takes too long to cast, not that it doesn't heal enough.

Sounds to much like....erm....[skill]Shadow Refuge[/skill]

moriz · Feb 12, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

except the healing at the end is not conditional, which makes it much better than shadow refuge.

Scary Raebbit · Feb 12, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

restful works poorly with natural stride, which singlehandedly makes it bad on a ranger.

This.
Also, if you can, hide behind a wall if you can.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 12, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

i dont ever have a problem with troll taking too long to cast but usually if I need a heal its because the team is already dead or we are facing mass degen

R A C · Feb 13, 2008, 01:37 AM // 01:37

I hardly even bother with a self heal these days. I mainly play normal pve and heros basically play it themsleves. I mainly play odd builds just to see if they work. I need to get into hard mode more often. could get bored quickly otherwise. I didn't even notice the "buff" untill I saw this thread. Troll hasn't been on my bar in a few days. running a pet build lately with heal as one. comfort animal is on there too, forgot to replace it, but just haven't needed to.

blue.rellik · Feb 13, 2008, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

izzy totally missed the mark on all the updates to self heals. troll unguent should look like this:

5e 2c 10r
for 5 seconds, you gain 4...8 health regeneration. when this skill ends, you are healed for 20...100 health.

the problem with troll is that it takes too long to cast, not that it doesn't heal enough.

That would be like far too good. Good rangers are already hard enough to kill

Jam Jar · Feb 13, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Uh I still don't get what TU is bad at... I mean I get that it has a long cast time... but you can use the long 13 seconds to your advantage. If you have any melees on you get a running skill and a snare and your set

I hope... But seriously though, rangers shouldn't get targeted alot! I mean we're suppose to be the freakin back row!

moriz · Feb 13, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

actually, rangers are a frontline class. that's where they are most effective.

and yes, i know that any meaningful buff to troll unguent will make rangers nigh-on invincible. however, my suggestion will make troll unguent much easier to tweak. if it proves to be too powerful, it's a simple matter of lowering the spike heal at the end to balance it.

R A C · Feb 13, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

I like your suggestion moriz. 2 seconds sounds perfect. same cast time as preps and traps.

Moonlit Azure · Feb 13, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

It couldn't hurt.

Orange Milk · Feb 14, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originolly Posted by pygar
(over 2 sec. cast and it is not going to be on my ranger bar- I quite literally dont have time for it)

But you do have time to stand there and do nothing while you Restful Breeze?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR PvPer
Anyhow there are times when ur out of energy as a ranger, and u need a time to replenish energy / hp / run away. i dont think u even understand how great restful breeze is-.-

If your out of energy on a Ranger, then your a bad Ranger. If your taking Restful Breeze on a PvP ranger you should just take Signet of Midnight instead that way you atleast render someone else useless at the same time instead of just yourself.

Anyway, the cast time sucks, the buff atleast allows for 100% duration. It helped my R/W Axe solo farm build. As a Ranger in a team build (PvE or PvP) Stances + Mend Touch + Heals from Monks > any form of self healing on your bar. High armor plus evasivness covers your ass well enough, Rangers Interupt + Spread conditions, you can't do that while casting Troll or standing there gaing HP Restfull Breezing.

Trolls works well in some Solo builds, Restfull maybe in a running build I guess, but otherwise useless.

NO, Trolls does not need turned into a Shadow Refuge skill, it just needs a 2 sec cast time to be decent.

pygar · Feb 14, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

But you do have time to stand there and do nothing while you Restful Breeze?

If you are going to quote me, please read my whole post(s), K Thx.

I have used restful breeze, but usually dont...in fact the only thing I usually run as self heal is good ol Mending touch. And yes, if I bring Unguent or Restful, the way I use either one is to pretty much run away while using it....and restful breeze is better in that role, because it activates faster (standing absolutely still for 3 seconds hurts) and unless you have super high wilderness (I usually don't), heals more in shorter time. For PvE (this is a PvE thread) and the low level PvP I play, there is no such thing as splitting really, and it is best to leave the healing to the dedicated healer classes.

MasterSasori · Feb 14, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pvper

restful breeze is more reliable, more convient, and more powerful at a lower attribute rate. So imo, restful breeze>troll anyday=p

Quite a few problems with breeze.

First, its an enchant which doesn't make it that reliable.

Second, not being able to use a skill is certainly not convenient especially if you need to use natural stride.

Third, this is true, but a large amount of Rangers have high att in wilderness for apply poison and natural stride, so this really isn't an issue.

I'm not saying troll is without its problems, but I just don't think breeze is a suitable answer.

distilledwill · Feb 14, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

So, would a change down from 13secs to 10, and from 3sec activation to 2secs, be better? or would it make it overpowered?

pygar · Feb 14, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

So, would a change down from 13secs to 10, and from 3sec activation to 2secs, be better? or would it make it overpowered?

It might would be over-powered...rangers have a lot of good survival abilities already, and with good healing available to them they are really hard to kill and are the last thing you want to try to take down in a group. It's pretty easy in PvE (and some PvP if you dont need splits) to not bring a self heal at all and just let the monks cover your butt. (I haven't used a self heal on my bar besides mending touch in months)

Theosephus · Feb 14, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by pygar

It might would be over-powered...

What if you made the skill easily interrupted?

Mr Pvper · Feb 14, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Quite a few problems with breeze.

First, its an enchant which doesn't make it that reliable.

Second, not being able to use a skill is certainly not convenient especially if you need to use natural stride.

Third, this is true, but a large amount of Rangers have high att in wilderness for apply poison and natural stride, so this really isn't an issue.

I'm not saying troll is without its problems, but I just don't think breeze is a suitable answer.

Troll would probably be more useful if u use wilderness survival / natural stride, but in any other cases that do not use wilderness survival restful breeze would probably be best. There are ranger builds that are just as effective / maybe better without wilderness survival.

MasterSasori · Feb 15, 2008, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pvper

Troll would probably be more useful if u use wilderness survival / natural stride, but in any other cases that do not use wilderness survival restful breeze would probably be best. There are ranger builds that are just as effective / maybe better without wilderness survival.

If you have no wilderness survival it will be obvious that troll is going to be crap and restful breeze will be better; that much is true. But forgoing wilderness survival means no natural stride and no apply poison, a severe cutback in power and survivability for the ranger. If you were to go R/Mo, what would you possibly fill your skill bar to match this loss?